Journal Entry:
Sat Oct 9, 2010, 10:53 PM
I've been talking to fellow cosplay photographers on cosplayers being frightened of the thought of a paid shoot.
A friend of mine brought up a good point today. Cosplayers can spend hundreds of dollars on a costume.. but refuse to spend a dime on a photoshoot.
Now I'm wondering why this is.
Lets just say I was a cosplayer (oh lol). I would probably pay around $250 for a decent photoshoot with a photographer I like. And I'm cheap as hell.
Don't misinterpret this entry as ... me.. or other photographers getting you guys to pay us in future. That's not what this is about.
What the main problem is.. is that many cosplayers actually have no clue what we go through.
Let me break it down for you...
Cost wise(in my case, as an example) :
Camera body = $3300
Lenses = $8500
Lighting = $900
And this is a low budget set up..
In a shoot we carry all this shit around... Hours of getting there.. shooting.. and I typically spend 1-2 hours on a good photo in post processing or 5-15 minutes on a decent one. That's a lot of time!
Now what I find surprising is that cosplayers often assume every shoot is and should be free.
Why is this?
Why is it that the cosplay community is the only thing out there with this school of thought?
Is it really so ludicrous of us to want money for our time, costs, effort and skill?
Lets discuss this.
(ps: I approach you, shoot is free)
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Sta.sh
Sometimes it is not.
And sometimes people are just broke because they've spent all their money and time on the art they love, instead of rent.
wats really interesting is that ive realised im not the only one that writes essay as a comment haha
prob gonna agree with what most people wrote already...
I think it really depends on each cosplayer and situation. When a photographer wish to be paid then they should let the cosplayers know from the start. As a courtesy for every cosplayer, I think, its their job to ask the photographer first if they wished to be paid when asking for shoot. I think that is a important question especially if you are approaching a photographer that you don't know him/her personally.
But, I believe in most cases cosplayers are already friends with photographers.
To me cosplay is a hobby. As you prob know already, I cosplay because I like to make costumes, I enjoy (reading/watching/playing) the work that I'm cosplaying, its a way to show love to the character I adore, and also to find friends who share similar interest. All of photographers for my cosplay photos are my friends. (or at least a friend of a friend lol) and they take cosplay photos as hobby too. As we share similar interest, both cosplayers and photographers enjoy the photo shoot. Most of all we also enjoy spending time together anyway because we are friends. I think this is why some cosplayers expects all photo shoots to be free of charge. They are all used to that give and take situation I guess?
Question to you Beethy. Where you ever put in a situation that you were forced to take photos and weren't paid? Do you take photos of cosplayers that you dont even know and didnt have any interest in the work either?
Personally, the break down of "what you go through" that you wrote above only works if your answer was yes for those questions. Isn't photography your hobby to start off with? Don't you enjoy the process of taking photos, editing, and posting them up on DA etc? I think money or time shouldn't bother you at all if its something you are doing to enjoy your life.
I don't find it ludicrous for you asking money for your shoot. Especially with your effort and skill that you put in. Costing would definitely be part of my list of questions if I am asking any sort of photo shoot with you. Of course I would prefer it free though lol. After all cosplay is my hobby. Not a business ;A;
(Though I would personally pay for you if I ever really wanted photos of myself...)
@Inuashley- your second point doesn't really seem logical- though some people would assume, I guess.
tl;dr? wtf is this mural thing at the bottom of every thing around here nowadays?
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Easy Off Bam...and the Swine Flu is gone...
If someone like you was charging for a photoshoot, yes I believe it would be right to charge money as again, the quality of your photographs are absolutely wonderful.
However, there are a lot of . . . Less than good quality photographers that will also charge as well. I believe it's all about picking a good photographer, saving the money and getting good pictures taken. [ )_);; Which I might approach you for a photoshoot and ask you for a price if I'm ever in the same country as you LOLOL. ]
Though, I guess it also depends on the cosplayer and if the are satisfied with the pictures they receive from Cons. I've gotten a few pictures back that were decent that I didn't have to pay for, but I guess that depends. :U Money can seal the deal on good quality pictures though LOL.
1 - I'm assuming that many cosplayers don't have a high taste level when it comes to photography. They're not looking for what photographers or people who are into photography are looking for.
2 - There are so many photographers asking for their photos at conventions, they assume anyone with a DSLR will take a good photo of them regardless of how little time or talent they have taking the shot or post-processing it.
3 - What other people said, by the time they made the costume and got to the convention, they're broke. Bad excuse, but they'll use it.
In my case, I likely won't pay more than $45 for myself for a shoot at a con, which is usually 45 min-1 hour at 1-2 locations within a block or two of the convention. I usually tend to get about 7-8 useable photos from these if I'm lucky; about 2-3 become the ones I post.
Why? The cost for me is determined based on the fact that I have photographer friends who will shoot me for free. The only reason why I would pay, then, is if I want a particular style of photography from someone who does charge, or their talent level is higher, or they're available in a time slot that I want and they're fun to work with and will give me my photos back within a reasonable time. (1-2 months). Many times, people who will shoot you for free won't return your photos within that time frame, at which point I don't even want them much anymore.
So that's my take on it~
I'm actually looking for a photographer and model and all the rest for my wanna-be business >.< But cause I'm a student, and I'm not actually selling anything at the moment I can't afford anything >.< It's quite frustrating, because I know I'm a hopeless photographer >.<
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Prince Charming. Prince Charming. Ridicule is nothing to be scared of...
Don't you ever...don't you ever... stop being Dandy, show them that you're handsome!!
Don't you ever...don't you ever... lower yourself, forgetting all your standards...
Adam Ant <3
All I'm really trying to get at is, cosplay photography should be a hobby, cosplay making should be a hobby, therefore all cosplay related things should be a hobby. The second one side starts making money at the expense of the other, it becomes a job or professional work, which we all know it's not. I guess, I consider it more of a trade-off.
Then again, I'm only talking about during convention time, outside of the convention scene I can absolutely agree with payment is needed.
TLDR; I suppose it all just depends on circumstances though. Sorry for the book I just wrote
It's expensive to be a photographer, and expensive to be a model (cosplayer or not). As expensive as you want it to be. (oooh nice new pocketwizards and an alienbeez kit... how I'd love to drop that kind of cash into my hobby). It's impossible to say one party pays more than the other. If you want to fork out for hair extensions or get your ears pointed, that's real money too (give me a new tiltshift lens anyday). Time is also difficult to weigh up. You spend time editing photos. They spend time doing their makeup and sweating at the gym. Spend as little or as much time as you want...
But remember one thing - YOU as the photographer own the image. You can do whatever you want if you get a reasonable release form (no one is worse at getting releases than I am, but that's something I need to get better at
If the model wants to use the images commercially (sell calendars, whatever,)they need you to sign that over to them, and they will probably be willing to pay for the shoot as it is a business expense. Is that where you're getting into problems here? I have a feeling most people are just happy to get the photos out of the shoot and have no intention of selling them.
Do you want to take their photo? Great. Let's say their time is worth $250. Pay them.
Do they want you to take their photo? Great. Your time is worth $250. They pay you.
You go to the ATM, get out $250, give it to them, take the $250 from them. OMG I HAVE $250! Profit!!!!.....errr.... wait a second.
If you don't want to take their photo..... don't? If you want to make money out of shots, maybe look into getting a Corbis account or something along those lines. Surely it's better than arguing over whose skills and time is more valuable in the creation of great images.
And lenses?! How many do you have, to cost so much? Because lenses are usually a few hundred, right? Not as much as the camera....
As for lighting, I understand that. You've got all the main stuff, soft box, reflectors, etc etc... and then all the nice extras
But yeah, I'd pay. I'm not sure how much I'd pay, because I've never had a professional shoot, but if it was for a professional cause, like a magazine, I'd probably spend a few hundred...
I can't even afford softboxes at this point.
There's another photographer here that's spent $40 000 on their kit.